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How to calculate Professional Standing?

d'Angelo

d'Angelo

Provider
Joined
Feb 15, 2006
Posts
164
Location
Netherlands
Society
The Atrox Killers
Avatar Name
Dan Spike d'Angelo
What is the formula used to determine the professional standing?

I use the current formula but it is still missing something:
For Laser Sniper the average of the following skills:
- Aim
- Combat reflexes
- Inflict Ranged Damage
- Rifle
- Weapons Handling
- Anatomy
- Laser Weaponry Technology

This formula returns a value close to my professional standing. The result divided by 1000 should be equal to your hit ability.

Does it also apply to yours? Is this formula correct?
Has handgun the same calculation (replace rifle for handgun)?
Has BLP the same calculation (replace laser for BLP Weaponry Tech)?
What is the calculation for critical hit ability?

Many questions but who can help?

-- Addition 2006-12-13
Seven pulled me back from the light :D and I owe it to you all to make this thread readable.
Here you can find the lastest version of the formula:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=451878&postcount=233

Keep up the good work, and thanks.
 
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d'Angelo said:
What is the formula used to determine the professional standing?

I use the current formula but it is still missing something:
For Laser Sniper the average of the following skills:
- Aim
- Combat reflexes
- Inflict Ranged Damage
- Rifle
- Weapons Handling
- Anatomy
- Laser Weaponry Technology

This formula returns a value close to my professional standing. The result divided by 1000 should be equal to your hit ability.

Does it also apply to yours? Is this formula correct?
Has handgun the same calculation (replace rifle for handgun)?
Has BLP the same calculation (replace laser for BLP Weaponry Tech)?
What is the calculation for critical hit ability?

Many questions but who can help?
Click to expand...

Some skills hardly affects the profstanding at all while others affect it more than others. You cannot calculate the profstanding simply by calculating the average skill level of the involved skills. The Primary skill usually affects the Hit Ability / Profstanding considerably more than the Aim or Anatomy lvl.

It wouldn't be that hard to get an accurate formula, but it would cost a couple of houndreds worth of skillchips and a naked noob-avatar in order to do it though.
 
Are you sure to give up before starting? I really want to crack the formula.

If all members of this forum make a small spreadsheet and calculate their values perhaps we can find the correlation.

Like we say in Holland: Niet geschoten is altijd mis :wise:

Or in PE language: No Hunt No Loot ;)

So people please help me with cracking this calculation.
 
d'Angelo said:
Are you sure to give up before starting? I really want to crack the formula.

If all members of this forum make a small spreadsheet and calculate their values perhaps we can find the correlation.

Like we say in Holland: Niet geschoten is altijd mis :wise:

Or in PE language: No Hunt No Loot ;)

So people please help me with cracking this calculation.
Click to expand...

Ok, but, Yes Hunt No Loot is more common in PE language.
Paramedic is given by Anatomy and First Aid mostly
Laser sniper by ranged skills and laser, so is the case with the rest of the weapon technologies
 
I don't know how you would do it but it would be interesting to know. For example I'd like to know what my professional standing in mining would be but only my hunting skills show up in the professional standings.
 
d'Angelo said:
Are you sure to give up before starting? I really want to crack the formula.

If all members of this forum make a small spreadsheet and calculate their values perhaps we can find the correlation.

Like we say in Holland: Niet geschoten is altijd mis :wise:

Or in PE language: No Hunt No Loot ;)

So people please help me with cracking this calculation.
Click to expand...

Well, you can't crack the formula simply by guessing. The only way to actually find out for sure is by buying 5000 Rifle skills, checking the difference. Buying 5000 LMW skills, checking the difference, etc, etc. Then you'll know exactly which skills affects the Hit Ability and how much they do.

It'll cost though.
 
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Recoda said:
Well, you can't crack the formula simply by guessing.
Click to expand...

Well, call it 'guessing', or 'reasonable assumptions', but I think that maths can help and I actually think that d'Angelo has a point.

You'd just have to assign a certain weight to each involved variable and assume that the formula is linear. Something like this:

pro stand = (A * aim) + (B * comb reflx) + (C * infl rang dmg) + (D *...)

Just include in the formula those skills that we know from experience that influence the most (maybe the ones that d'Angelo posted).

Then take as much input from the players as we can get, and let a maths programs crack the weights for each skill (A, B, C, D,... values). Of course, we don't know if the formula is linear, but it should be an acceptable estimation.

I'm about to move from capable to skilled laser sniper (i know because my hit ability is 2.2 but i'm still 'capable'). When my prof stand changes, i'll post the skill values and we can have the first entry to crack the formula...

Cheers,
/jdegre.
 
Actually, the answer is quite simply.

It's a bell curve of tertiary, secondary, and primary skills, respectively, to their rate of parabolic growth. That means primaries are on top (HG gives you the most handgun bonus), secondaries follow (IRD), then tertiaries (Perception) and although it took rather a very long time to get enough data to actually figure it out, it was worth it; for a time. I had one calculated for the last skill system, if I find my old charts laying around anywhere I'll post them.. But MA has changed alot since I last played, and unfortunately, all of those figures will be negated. It should give you a semblance of an idea though...

I had been keeping them essentially unbeknownst to the populace because of the obvious advantage it gave, but now that has no meaning... I'll look, if you care about the obsolete figures, and post them...
 
Recoda said:
Well, you can't crack the formula simply by guessing. The only way to actually find out for sure is by buying 5000 Rifle skills, checking the difference. Buying 5000 LMW skills, checking the difference, etc, etc. Then you'll know exactly which skills affects the Hit Ability and how much they do.

It'll cost though.
Click to expand...
That's the easier but more expensive way. Another way is to compare skills of multiple avatars at different skill levels/professional standing
 
Find 20 people about to change prof ranks alittle bit more skilled...no noobs :) ..... the exact moment they get a new prof rank get all of their skills and do some simple calculus :)
 
Well, some skills doesn't affect the profstanding at all. So you can't gather 20 people and compare the difference skills to one eachother. Because one or two of those skills won't do anything. And there's a huge chance that you'll miss something and estimate that it'll increase the profstanding some, even though it doesn't.

The most accurate way is with the skillchips, it's almost impossible to get a 100% accurate formula any other way. And you'll also have to take the Hidden Skills into the calculation. So it's going to be a real mess if you do it without using any skillchips.

I guess you'd have to gather a reasonably large amount of Avatars if you're going to do it some other way though.

However, the skills that I noticed that have an affect on the profstanding are: Dexterity, Perception, Aim, Combat Reflexes, Primary Skill, Weapon Handling and the Tech Skill.
 
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Like Recoda says, it would take WAY more than 20 people. At first I thought that people like me that switched from Laser to BLP late and then took up Mining after 2k or more in Rifle and then... :laugh: would mess things up. But then I realized if you got the formula figured out on people who DIDN'T take the crazy road that people like I did it should still apply.

Assuming you got the formula right ;)
 
Maybe taking avatars that got a fresh update in their pro-standing and haven`t skilled much after it would decrease the number of needed ppl?

Stil an idea that would just work in theory IMO. Would be impossible to do that in practice.
 
Great ideas everyone, keep them coming.

I am now thinking that a website can help collecting data. I will start asking my soc members and others to provide me with their skill data.

Perhaps with number crunching or math we can figure out what the formula is (might be). MA has placed a complex formula on the skill gain, but I don't think the professional standings formula is that complex.
Why would MA make that formula complex, it is just a simple reward of skill progress.

When I play I really look at the the skills gained during a certain action. Based on that I have formed my first skills list. And dexterity is on that list... Perception I am not sure yet.

I was also not sure what to do with Marksmanship. The secundair and tertair skills thought of jdegre is indeed smart. Must take those in account too.

I will work on it more this week, but please report skills and hit ability just after a change in your primary (highest) professional standing. We need hunters, crafters, and miners too.

Thanks,
d'Angelo
 
d'Angelo said:
Great ideas everyone, keep them coming.

I am now thinking that a website can help collecting data. I will start asking my soc members and others to provide me with their skill data.

Perhaps with number crunching or math we can figure out what the formula is (might be). MA has placed a complex formula on the skill gain, but I don't think the professional standings formula is that complex.
Why would MA make that formula complex, it is just a simple reward of skill progress.

When I play I really look at the the skills gained during a certain action. Based on that I have formed my first skills list. And dexterity is on that list... Perception I am not sure yet.

I was also not sure what to do with Marksmanship. The secundair and tertair skills thought of jdegre is indeed smart. Must take those in account too.

I will work on it more this week, but please report skills just after a change in your primary (highest) professional standing. We need hunters, crafters, and miners too.

Thanks,
d'Angelo
Click to expand...

The skillsystem isn't that complex at all. You'll gain an X amount of points into the profstanding lvl for an Y amount of lvls in Handgun/Rifle/LWT/Aim, etc.

So for instance, you might gain 0.4 Points in the Hit Ability for 750 lvls, that would be a rather decent H/A modifier. For 1500 lvls, you'd gain 0.8 and 2250 lvls you'd gain 1.2 Points in the Hit Ability. However, there are alot of skills to take into consideration. The primary skill will ofcourse be the best profstanding modifier, followed by some secondary skills.

I'm not sure if anyone have looked into the Hit Ability, Critical Hit yet. However, there are alot of stats available on HP modding skills out there. I did some tests on the Anatomy skill some time ago, as it turns out it's a rather decent minimum damage modifier. However, I lost those stats so I'm not able to post them here.

This looks like a rather large project however, I'm not sure how I could help you right now. But, good luck with it.
 
d'Angelo said:
What is the formula used to determine the professional standing?

I use the current formula but it is still missing something:
For Laser Sniper the average of the following skills:
- Aim
- Combat reflexes
- Inflict Ranged Damage
- Rifle
- Weapons Handling
- Anatomy
- Laser Weaponry Technology

This formula returns a value close to my professional standing. The result divided by 1000 should be equal to your hit ability.

Does it also apply to yours? Is this formula correct?
Has handgun the same calculation (replace rifle for handgun)?
Has BLP the same calculation (replace laser for BLP Weaponry Tech)?
What is the calculation for critical hit ability?

Many questions but who can help?
Click to expand...

Good job - keep on calculating

You can find a lot of avatar skills here Avatar skills - and in my case i just got a change in my prof stannding after inserting of a HG gsi. My skills can be found there too.
 
What about PE Stats? PE Stats

Don't they have a web page somewherer that people upload their stats? I've never used the web version so I don't know. But that should be a treasure trove of skill data.
 
Well, every skill has it own value, so to find out both what skills that are included
and what value every skill has, will probably take some time. ;)
F.ex Rifle has way higher value than LWT....
 
Ok. So, here are some of my skills exactly at the moment of turning "skilled laser sniper":

- Aim: 1003
- Combat Reflexes: 1040
- Inflict Ranged Damage: 1229
- Rifle: 3152
- Weapons Handling: 1523
- Anatomy: 2903
- Laser Weaponry Technology: 3561
- Dexterity: 867
- Perception: 595

So, if we assume the there are no other skills affecting the "laser sniper" pro stand, then we need to find out the weights of each skill, so they give 2200 (skilled) rank.

Cheers,
/jdegre.
 
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jdegre said:
Ok. So, here are some of my skills exactly at the moment of turning "skilled laser sniper":

- Aim: 1003
- Combat Reflexes: 1040
- Inflict Ranged Damage: 1229
- Rifle: 3152
- Weapons Handling: 1523
- Anatomy: 2903
- Laser Weaponry Technology: 3561

So, if we assume the there are no other skills affecting the "laser sniper" pro stand, then we need to find out the weights of each skill, so they give 2200 (skilled) rank.

Cheers,
/jdegre.
Click to expand...
I don't think IRD nor Anatomy affects the professional standing, however. I'm sure that Dexterity and Perception will also have an affect. So I guess those stats would be nice to have as well. :)
 
As mentioned above, pro-standing is a weighted average of the relevant skills.

So Pro-standing of say "Great pistoleer" means the equation

(A*Handgun)+(B*LWT)+(C*Aim)+...
works out at somewhere between 3000-3199.

You can work out the weight primary weapon skill and weapon technology have in the overall formula quite easily, just by looking at your hit ability on a laser pistol, a laser rifle (not opalo), and a blp rifle.

My gold card's at home, so can't login to check my skills at the moment, but say your hit ability was 3.0 with a laser handgun, and 2.8 with a laser rifle, then can work out what effect the difference in your handgun and rifle skills has to your hit ability (as this is the only skill that differs in the two calcs).
If rifle skill was 2000, and handgun skill was 3000, and hit ability was 3.0 with HG and 2.8 with rifle, that implies that (3000-2000)*A = 200
ie in the above equation, "A" is 0.2

Similarly, can work out the weight weapon technology skill has by comparing hit ability between a blp rifle and laser rifle, as the only skill different is WT.

This will give a rough (due to rounding) indication of the weights of these two skills in your overall pro-standing.

I had a look at this previously, and I think it's something like 30% is primary skill, and 10% WT (the remaining 60% made up of aim, mms, etc), but will check when I can login.

Hope some of that made sense! :laugh:

(Also, agreeing with Recoda, I'm almost certain that anatomy is just a damage mod)
 
.........................
 
I can't belive I didn't think of that. Anyhow, I did a couple of small calculations, as the difference between my LWT/BLP is rather large. I've got approx 5000 in LWT while I've just got around 1000 in BLP tech.

Anyhow,
The primary skill doesn't affect the minimum damage %.
2509 levels in the primary skill (that was the difference between Hand/Rifle) will increase the Hit Ability by 0.9 and the Critical Hit with 1.0 points.

The weapon technology will affect the dmg interval, hit ability and the critical hit ability. 3879 (Difference between BLP/LWT) will affect the DMG interval with 2.4%, it'll increase the Hit Ability with 0.5 and the Critical Hit Ability with 0.6 points.

You can do a couple of own calculations, although. I did some and rounded up the figures a bit, so they wouldn't look to messy. Anyhow, here's my result.

The Result
One lvl in the weapons primary skill will increase the Hit Ability with 0,00036 points, the Critical Hit ability with 0,0004 points.

One lvl in the weapons technology will increase the damage interval with 0,00062%, the Hit Ability with 0,00013 points and the Critical Hit Ability with 0,00016 points.

Explanation
So, if you're handgun lvl is 5000, that would give you approx 5000 * 0,00036 an additional of 1.8 in you're Hit Ability.

And, if you're weapon tech is 5000, that would give you approx 5000 * 0,00013 an additional of 0.65 in you're Hit Ability.
 
Lady Mercury said:
.........................
Click to expand...

I r geek :tongue2:

Could be useful if we can piece it all together though
 
Hit ability is your professional standing. For example 4.0 hit ability with a laser riffle means your prof standing is Specialist laser sniper. Hit ability X 1k = professional standing thats all u need to know =). just keep track as it moves and eat thoose chips n dip on thoose slow gaining skills.
 
You could also say approx 600 WT is about 0,1 in your Hit Ability... ;)
If anyone has the interest of doin this, you could ask around and
see what peoples HG, Rifle and Techskills are, and then ask their Hit Ability
for LWT-Hg, LWT Rifle, BLP-Hg, BLP Rifle, Plasma-Hg and Plasma Rifle.
Try as many different type of players as possible, both those that are
close to trigger first RW-related skill, and those that has triggered some already.
There might be some difference in the numbers.... ;)
 
The formula for pro standings has been attempted cracked ever since PE started, some have been close, but no sigar. There is posts on this forum and on EP with regards to how it works.
I can say one thing for sure tho.. I have gained a new pro standing that dont match the hit ability*1000 theory..

To summarize, that theory goes; hit ability*1000 = pro standing (average skill level for weapon type).
Meaning for example hit ability on Mk.II = 2,3 means your pro standing is Skilled, average skills affecting laser rifles = 2300 +/- 50(or 100?) - 2349 would still be 2,3 for sure, possibly even 2399 would be 2,3.
 
Tigerman said:
The formula for pro standings has been attempted cracked ever since PE started, some have been close, but no sigar. There is posts on this forum and on EP with regards to how it works.
I can say one thing for sure tho.. I have gained a new pro standing that dont match the hit ability*1000 theory..

To summarize, that theory goes; hit ability*1000 = pro standing (average skill level for weapon type).
Meaning for example hit ability on Mk.II = 2,3 means your pro standing is Skilled, average skills affecting laser rifles = 2300 +/- 50(or 100?) - 2349 would still be 2,3 for sure, possibly even 2399 would be 2,3.
Click to expand...
How much in difference are your Pro Stand from Hit Ability?
I think it is +/- 50 btw...
 
Joat said:
How much in difference are your Pro Stand from Hit Ability?
I think it is +/- 50 btw...
Click to expand...
my current difference is that the pro standing i just accuired is a couple of 100 levels above the hit ability *1000
This COULD be related to me not having used laser rifles in some time (Laser Sniper)
 
Tigerman said:
my current difference is that the pro standing i just accuired is a couple of 100 levels above the hit ability *1000
This COULD be related to me not having used laser rifles in some time (Laser Sniper)
Click to expand...
Or a triggered skill that influence Pro Stand but not Hit Ability... ;)
 
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