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Evader Profession

jdegre

jdegre

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Dec 24, 2005
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Jesus jdegre de Gregorio
Hi,
I'm trying to figure out the influence of individual skills in the evader prof. standing. Kind of the same thing that was done in other threads with the combat professions (hit and damage). This is extremely useful if you want to chip up to unlock avoidance, for instance, and not to waste any peds in skills that might not have almost any relevance...

Now that we can see the detailed stats for all professions, it is expected to be much more easy, btw.

I started yesterday by chipping up 3 skills, and comparing the evader level before and after, and assuming that the evader prof. standing is calculated as a linear weighted average of other skills.

What I have figured out so far is the following weights:


- Agility*20: 8% (this means agility goes from 1-500)
- Evade: 25%
- Athletics: 14%
- Combat Reflexes: 11%
- Courage: 7%
- Avoidance: 7% (*)
- Combat Sense: 6%
- Alertness: 5%
- Serendipity: 5%


First surprise: alertness influence is much much lower than I expected !.

This was calculated by checking the levels gained in the individual skills, and the resulting advance in the evader profession.

Other skills that influence the evader profession might be:

- Quickness
- Intuition

So basically what I'd need from you is that, if you're going to chip any of these skills, please take note of the skills level before and after the chipping, and also the exact evader advance (you can do that taking screen shots of the evader progress bar, and counting the bars, there are 124 bars in a full progress bar, so you can get your exact evade level pretty accurately; if you want to post screen shots, that's fine, I'll count the bars for you :) )

So, looking forward for your input...

Cheers,
/jdegre.

(*) Avoidance was calculated indirectly from data sets submitted from players, not from chipping, so it might not be correct.
 
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Combat reflexes i know for sure that it influences the evader lvl.
I chipped one 60 ped TT chip in and gained around 1 lvl in evader if i remember correctly. Unfortenately i do not have the exact data so i can not help you with that. Looking at screencaptures of previous unlocks of avoidance also agility should be taken into acount in the formula.

For dodger it seems that one only has to replace evade for dodge. Though it might be as with rifle and handgun that the percentages might not be the same.

One skill i am missing is avoidance. And possible also quickness and intuition.

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)
 
rhogenbe said:
Looking at screencaptures of previous unlocks of avoidance also agility should be taken into acount in the formula.
Click to expand...

Yes, most probably agility affects as well; the problem is that agility cannot be chipped, and the easiest way to determine the individual weights is by chipping individual skills.

rhogenbe said:
One skill i am missing is avoidance. And possible also quickness and intuition.
Click to expand...

Certainly!. Again, if anybody plans to chips up any of those, please, take note of your individual skill gain, and also your evader advance, and post !

BTW, I guess that when chipping out the effect would be symmetrical, right?. So, if anybody plans on removing any of those skills, please report it as well.

Cheers,
/jdegre.
 
Good plan! I'll be sure to post any relevant data I have if I chip at any point.

I reckon Serendipity, Dexterity, Perception may also contribute.
 
jdegre said:
What I have figured out so far is the following weights:

- Evade: 25%
- Athletics: 14%
- Alertness: 5%

First surprise: alterness influence is much much lower than I expected !.

This was calculated by checking the levels gained in the individual skills, and the resulting advance in the evader profession.

Other skills that influence the evader profession might be:

- Combat Reflexes
- Courage
- Coolness
- Avoidance
- Quickness
- Intuition
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking initiative on this. Already your results are quite useful -- they demonstrate, for example, that someone chipping just evade to unlock avoidance would need 10k exactly if they had no other relevant skills (to get level 25 evader).

I chipped CR and Alertness before the evader profession was visible, but by watching the frequency of skill gains it seemed evident that alertness was a minor player. I was under the impression that serendipity was a relevant skill, however. Anyone chipped that one?
 
More data:

Combat Reflexes: 11%

(Gained 811 levels in CR, and advanced from 20.45 to 21.35 in evader).

I'll keep updated the first post with new data, so it is easier to follow.

/jdegre.
 
Coolness, Dexterity, and Perception would not be included in the Evader Profession IMO, as they arent gained when a mob attacks and you arent hit

(Dext is gained in the act of fapping itself, not evading)
 
this seems like a great idea...but instead of just checking evader changes, might as well check all the professions that are affected by the skill change...
 
atomicdog said:
this seems like a great idea...but instead of just checking evader changes, might as well check all the professions that are affected by the skill change...
Click to expand...

Hmmm, fair point ;)
 
Maybe someone with a few extra PEDs and an esi or two could help us with this?

I wouldnt even know where to begin to realize HOW this informatin could be gained... but then again, my mind isnt fully developed, only HS student...

Jdegre, your brain is better than mine, so I'll give ya +rep for it... :)

-Blinding Light
 
Stryker said:
Coolness, Dexterity, and Perception would not be included in the Evader Profession IMO, as they arent gained when a mob attacks and you arent hit

(Dext is gained in the act of fapping itself, not evading)
Click to expand...

Ok. So dexterity and perception are out, but... are you 100% positive on coolness?. I kinda agree with doer in this post in that most of my related skills are in the range of 2500-3500, except coolness which is way behind (~1000), so I thought that maybe it was that skill which was the main reason for having such a low evader pro standing.

atomicdog said:
this seems like a great idea...but instead of just checking evader changes, might as well check all the professions that are affected by the skill change...
Click to expand...

Definitely, it would be great to do that. I'll re-check my screenshots to see what can I get from my last chipping, but I'm affraid that I did not take all the screenshots from the pro standings panel, just the first screen.:duh:

Cheers,
/jdegre.
 
jdegre said:
Ok. So dexterity and perception are out, but... are you 100% positive on coolness?. I kinda agree with doer in this post in that most of my related skills are in the range of 2500-3500, except coolness which is way behind (~1000), so I thought that maybe it was that skill which was the main reason for having such a low evader pro standing.
Click to expand...

Could just be that the relevant unlockable skills like avoidance contribute quite a lot...

Well, someone is bound to chip some coolness sometime - we just need to get them to post here!
 
jdegre said:
Definitely, it would be great to do that. I'll re-check my screenshots to see what can I get from my last chipping, but I'm affraid that I did not take all the screenshots from the pro standings panel, just the first screen.:duh:

Cheers,
/jdegre.
Click to expand...

An accurate and fast way to do this is to take as screenie of all the pages before and after chipping. Then open PSP (or similar program), and cut out the bar. The bar is exactly 124 pixels long, so just hover the mouse over the last pixel that is colored and you can see what pixel it is. Devide it by 124 and voilla.

Andother handy thing is to name the screenshots somthing like 1-before.bmp, 1-after.bmp. Then you can easely use the windows viewer to see if a bar changes.

I done the same for alerness. It affected 3 professions in total. Evader, dodger, and pet handler. And all 3 were affected very little, so its a crap skill.
 
jdegre said:
Other skills that influence the evader profession might be:

- Courage
- Serendipity
- Coolness
- Avoidance
- Quickness
- Intuition
Click to expand...


dont forget Combat Sence :)
 
Witte said:
An accurate and fast way to do this is to take as screenie of all the pages before and after chipping. Then open PSP (or similar program), and cut out the bar. The bar is exactly 124 pixels long, so just hover the mouse over the last pixel that is colored and you can see what pixel it is. Devide it by 124 and voilla.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's exactly how I did it, as explained in first post. The problem is that I was focused in evader, and I forgot to capture the rest of the pro standing panels, just took the screenshot of the first panel (first page of combat pro standings).

I've reviewed the last chipping I did (combat reflexes) and, from the 811 levels I gained, my laser sniper pro standing moved 0,242 levels, so this is equivalent to a 2.98% weight, but we already knew that, right Jimmy B? :)

Looking forward for more chippers to provide data...
/jdegre.
 
Jimmy B said:
Could just be that the relevant unlockable skills like avoidance contribute quite a lot...
Click to expand...

Yes, I was thinking the same after I posted... everybody talks wonders about avoidance, so maybe it has a very high weight of 25-30% or so. That would explain it.

/jdegre.
 
I do know for a fact that you only gain Coolness by attacking (shooting or melee), so it wouldn't make sense for it to aid the evader profession IMO.

I am well over 7k in it, so it wouldnt make sense for me to chip it, perhaps someone who just unlocks it could verify, would be interesting to know.
 
jdegre said:
Yes, that's exactly how I did it, as explained in first post. The problem is that I was focused in evader, and I forgot to capture the rest of the pro standing panels, just took the screenshot of the first panel (first page of combat pro standings).

I've reviewed the last chipping I did (combat reflexes) and, from the 811 levels I gained, my laser sniper pro standing moved 0,242 levels, so this is equivalent to a 2.98% weight, but we already knew that, right Jimmy B? :)

Looking forward for more chippers to provide data...
/jdegre.
Click to expand...

Oops read right past that ;)
 
jdegre said:
I've reviewed the last chipping I did (combat reflexes) and, from the 811 levels I gained, my laser sniper pro standing moved 0,242 levels, so this is equivalent to a 2.98% weight, but we already knew that, right Jimmy B? :)
Click to expand...

Oh yes indeed we did! Nice to see some numbers confirmed!

Actually I wouldn't expect the results from the pro-standing formula to be quite that accurate in general! I wouldn't have been surprised if they had all turned out to integer percentages (particularly after my blunder assuming sniper and pistoleer to have the same formula).
 
I got serendipity while evading today for sure, so you can add that one unequivocably to the list.

We could also probably figure out the relative percentages of the other skills by comparing the level evader and the levels of those skills in several different cases -- now that we've figured out which skills are involved.
 
If we have all skills related to evader skill we could use some "simple" maths to calculate the percentage.

If we take a letter for each skill (eg. evade = a, alertness = b, avoidance = c etc) we get this after filling in the skillvalues :

3500 * a + 2005 * b + 0 * c + 1400 * d + .....[continue with all related skills]....... = evlvl
(evlvl is your evader profession value * 100)

So if we have a second avatar we get like 2 of these:
3500 * a + 2005 * b + 0 * c + 1400 * d ......... = 1921
1200 * a + 100 * b + 0 * c + 800 * d ............ = 800

Now we rewrite the second one and isolate variable a :
For easy example I skip all after variable d :
1200* a = 800 - 100*b - 800 * d (we can drop the zero skills here)
a = 800/1200 - (100/1200)*b - (800/1200) * d
Now we fill the second one into the first one :

3500 * (800/1200 - (100/1200)*b - (800/1200) * d) + 2005 * b + 1400 * d = 1921

2333.33 - 291.66 * b - 2333.33 * d = 1921

See ? we took out variable a.

If do this with some more avatars we can end up with only one of the variables in the equasion and get the real value of it, and we can start solving all and get the real formula for evader profession.
 
Hi teranoz,
You are right, the approach you've described was used successfully by Jimmy B and Witte in the other threads to calculate the "hit" and "damage" combat professional standings. The main problem is that we need to know with 100% certainty all involved skills, otherwise the results would not be correct.

Once we have all the relevant skills, as you say, we just need as many input data sets as unsolved skill weights, and then, it is only a matter of inverting a square matrix.

Anyway, the approach used in this thread is to chip individually one skill at a time, because in that way, you can isolate the influence of each skill, and then calculate each weight in the most straightforward way.

But, definitely, failing to have input data from chipping, any other data would be most welcome. Just report your current level for all involved skills and your exact level in the evader profession, and let's see if we can determine any additional weight from it.

Cheers,
/jdegre.
 
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Stryker said:
I do know for a fact that you only gain Coolness by attacking (shooting or melee), so it wouldn't make sense for it to aid the evader profession IMO.

I am well over 7k in it, so it wouldnt make sense for me to chip it, perhaps someone who just unlocks it could verify, would be interesting to know.
Click to expand...



allmost certain I gained evader profession from coolness the other day. Could ofcourse be wrong but I seam to remember me thinking it was a cool thing to know :)
 
Ok a little bump for this one.

Have we any more idea of the influence other skills have as to evader profesion?

I`m looking at a little bit of chippin in the near future and would like a little push on avoidence. Cheers
 
GOOSE said:
Ok a little bump for this one.

Have we any more idea of the influence other skills have as to evader profesion?

I`m looking at a little bit of chippin in the near future and would like a little push on avoidence. Cheers
Click to expand...

I've not done any further chipping; unfortunately, I cannot afford as many chips as I'd like :)
Anyway, I played a little bit with the data provided by doer when he unlocked avoidance, and with the stats from Kyl (who posted in another thread).
With these few data sets, and not knowing 100% sure which skills affect evader, I cannot make much progress, but the following weights seems to fit my skills, doer's and kyl's:
- courage: 10%
- serendipity: 5% (confirmed)
- avoidance: 12%

Again, this is extremely unreliable data, since it has been only tested with 3 data sets, so most probably it is not very accurate.

Goose, if you're thinking on chipping courage, don't forget to take note of your skills gain and evader advance, and report please. I'm specially curious about this one :)

/jdegre.
 
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np, my courage is @ 2400, whilst my evade at 2k, so that will probably be the first chip to go in! i`ll screenshot pro standing list and skill screen before and after to help out :)


on a side note, being as technically minded as you are, have you looked at the other hidden skills? such as medicene as it would be nice to know the contributing factors there too, as melee combat :)
 
Here's another silly question, slightly off-topic: why is there an Evader profession? That's basically saying that you are hard to hit. How do you make a profession like that? Something like: "Attention ladies and gentlemen! Try your luck at shoot the amazing Evading colonist! 10 PED a try now, folks, try to hit the Evader!"

Well?

More seriously, I suppose you could use an Evader to "pull" mobs to a group of hunters and stand some chance of surviving.



Thanks
 
Spoofman said:
Something like: \Attention ladies and gentlemen! Try your luck at shoot the amazing Evading colonist! 10 PED a try now, folks, try to hit the Evader!\
Click to expand...

that would be a shoot the amazing dodger i believe ;)

i think its just to show your Ave skills in that area of your developement
 
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