Vote: remove ND "branding" from Next Island?

Stave said:

No, but i like next island and everything on it, is that so wrong?

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You should know by now that if you don't side with the majority you're ALWAYS wrong..... Remember the Hydra Turreting? lol

Menace

Menace said:

You should know by now that if you don't side with the majority you're ALWAYS wrong..... Remember the Hydra Turreting? lol

Menace

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Well.. yeah.. but the Hydra needed killin'!

Menace said:

Let's face it, if myself or ANYONE ELSE in game had the opportunity to do what he's doing we'd be all over that shit like a fat kid on an M&M.

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And with all due respect to you too Menace ... you are not the spokesperson for EVERYONE ELSE in game.
If I had the opportunity to build a planet, I would only use an official avatar that did not give me the benefit of double-dipping. I think that this is something that FPC did that I can give total respect to, as well as Ozi who has announced that he will be retiring his EU avatar when Planet Arkadia comes online and creating a CEO avatar. Some people have integrity when it comes to ethics and doing the right thing, others don't ... but then that's what makes the world so discussable, eh?

It's ok ... we can agree to disagree!

To be fair guys, if were getting into conflict of intrest, its none of our business, for a number of reasons, first of all we dont know what happens to anything the neverdie avatar gets, nor if he can keep it.

The CND island taxes could very well be part of the contract agreement with david post, and all taxes go toward nd studios.

At the end of the day, we dont even know ma's rules for planet partners. Its not our business, if thier doing something wrong mindark will step in and do something about it.


Its not our problem, were here to play the game eu.

So lets leave worrying about the platform to those that run it, and begin worrying about playing this damn game and having fun eh?

Stave said:

So lets leave worrying about the platform to those that run it, and begin worrying about playing this damn game and having fun eh?

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I partially agree with the first part Stave, but here is the deal with "fun". I haven't seen it expressed really clear so i try an pitiful (due to lack of language skills) attempt to explain from my very personal perspective:

I am a grinder type, i like what Calypso / FPC company has to offer as it is. I can ignore if stuff goes wrong (in example events), i participate or i don't. I got me plenty of mob to grind on and thats what i like to do.

I am easy to entertain, in fact i don't need any missions, quests or whatever. But i appreciate if such things get implemented for people who enjoy that kind of things.

I liked the old PE , kinda clumsy, SciFi ambience and opposite to others i feel like MA / FPC managed to salvage a good deal of it even after Cry2 (and still works on it obviously). I do like Calypso.

I am used to not get my expectations to high, so i can't be disappointed easy. In that context i also have not much expectations on new planets, will see what comes and how it fits for me.

Why i tell you all that about myself you will see at the end.

Now we know since long that we get new planets and that those planets will not fit into our calypso theme. So thats how i imagined that it might work for me:

We get new planets with obviously new themes that are economically somewhat connected (recources and item exchange if planet partner chooses) but yet in example by seperate global chat seperated enough that i can let myself sink into that different theme (fantasy, elfs, ancient greek, what ever) and experience a new ambience.

So i told myself the day before the (prelaunch): "Hey you old greedy bastard" (i am very frugal ingame) "Once after 5 years of grinding you allow yourself some vacation from Calypso and spend those 80 Peds to go up there and down again and let yourself sink into that time-travel or whatever that planet is about thingy".

Not chasing for new items, not beeing the first to loot some new mob, but just for the fun of it and the exploration. Expecting something whole new, different from the usual Calypso routine. I wasn't expecting any miracles, wasn't expecting that time travel thingy even works, was expecting that it is not that ready yet. But was expecting a totally new theme to sink in.

And well, some minutes after logging in i see the names of the already opened teleporters on Next Island and i see what happens in global chat. My reaction was only a *sigh*, no vacation this time.
But yet somehow another little expectation broke. Later then to discover that it was anyway just a ND release and that the Next Island is not even considered ready for launch by the developers.

Now like i told you in the beginning i usually don't care much about such things. I grap my gun and go out grinding again. So much for the fun part...

But there are people out there, a lot, who takes promises literally. And if i, who don't care shit about such things usually, feel a little "betrayed" by the way this launch happened, then i can imagine how people who value the fun in the way you suggest it will feel.

Menace said:

No... in terms of Calypso it's like FPC spawning proterons when an asteroid sells. It's like FPC spawning Leviathan when new mob DNA is put together. It's like FPC starting a robot event when someone's just completed a super expensive DNA and acquired land to spawn it on.

Menace

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Crystal Palace is part of the Planet Calypso system, it makes no difference for FPC's income if people hunt up there, on Calypso, Amethera or a player owned land area. What has happened on the new Club Neverdie area is that the CEO of a planet development company created his own personal taxable land area. This is as if Marco would create a land area for his own privately owned avatar and put millions of peds worth of creature spawns on it.

I don't agree at all with Stave when he says it's between Next Island and Neverdie. They need to give us an explanation of exactly what happened here.
For me it came as a huge surprise that you are allowed to do something like this as a developer. I always assumed there were strict limits to what MindArk or Planet Partner employees could do with their avatars.
I have a hard time to explain why it's wrong because it's so obvious to me. You just can't have the people in power of mob stats and spawns creating tailor made land areas for their personal avatars. To put things on it's edge you could compare it to the balancing team being free to buy and sell items with their personal avatars, and then adjust drop rates and create new items to maximize their resale profits.

mjukis said:

What has happened on the new Club Neverdie area is that the CEO of a planet development company created his own personal taxable land area.

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To be honest, i belive the cnd island is part of the contract between ni and nd studios, as payment. Like RT makes land areas for its partners, like lemmy, as payment to them.

Stave said:

To be honest, i belive the cnd island is part of the contract between ni and nd studios, as payment. Like RT makes land areas for its partners, like lemmy, as payment to them.

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You really don't get it do you.

mjukis said:

Crystal Palace is part of the Planet Calypso system, it makes no difference for FPC's income if people hunt up there, on Calypso, Amethera or a player owned land area. What has happened on the new Club Neverdie area is that the CEO of a planet development company created his own personal taxable land area. This is as if Marco would create a land area for his own privately owned avatar and put millions of peds worth of creature spawns on it.

I don't agree at all with Stave when he says it's between Next Island and Neverdie. They need to give us an explanation of exactly what happened here.
For me it came as a huge surprise that you are allowed to do something like this as a developer. I always assumed there were strict limits to what MindArk or Planet Partner employees could do with their avatars.
I have a hard time to explain why it's wrong because it's so obvious to me. You just can't have the people in power of mob stats and spawns creating tailor made land areas for their personal avatars. To put things on it's edge you could compare it to the balancing team being free to buy and sell items with their personal avatars, and then adjust drop rates and create new items to maximize their resale profits.

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Looks like Medusa's head won't be such a great investment with Planet Partners who can deflate the values of DNA and land areas on a whim.

Stave said:

To be honest, i belive the cnd island is part of the contract between ni and nd studios, as payment. Like RT makes land areas for its partners, like lemmy, as payment to them.

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Lemmy and Kevin Rudolf owning land in Rocktropia or any other planet in Entropia is fine, they are not the employee of any planet partner as far as I know and they have no power to manipulate any portion of the game to their advantage.
Neverdie is now in a position where many of the choices he and the rest of Neverdie Studios make will impact the value and profitability of their privately owned land area within the world. No employee of a planet partner should have the value of their personal assets being affected by the choices they make developing the game.
Allowing employees to have ownership of any asset in game is obviously a liability. And allowing payment to employees in the form of in world assets is just outrageous. Regardless if it's shared between a team of employees or a single person.
It's scary to me that there is no policy in place to prevent this. It's only a matter of time before someone exploits this to the fullest, and that could have devastating effects on the game economy.

mjukis said:

Lemmy and Kevin Rudolf owning land in Rocktropia or any other planet in Entropia is fine, they are not the employee of any planet partner as far as I know and they have no power to manipulate any portion of the game to their advantage.
Neverdie is now in a position where many of the choices he and the rest of Neverdie Studios make will impact the value and profitability of their privately owned land area within the world. No employee of a planet partner should have the value of their personal assets being affected by the choices they make developing the game.
Allowing employees to have ownership of any asset in game is obviously a liability. And allowing payment to employees in the form of in world assets is just outrageous. Regardless if it's shared between a team of employees or a single person.
It's scary to me that there is no policy in place to prevent this. It's only a matter of time before someone exploits this to the fullest, and that could have devastating effects on the game economy.

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Exactly! Such is why most contests put on by companies don't allow employees or their families to take part in the contest. It's just an invitation for trouble.

mjukis said:

Lemmy and Kevin Rudolf owning land in Rocktropia or any other planet in Entropia is fine, they are not the employee of any planet partner as far as I know and they have no power to manipulate any portion of the game to their advantage.
Neverdie is now in a position where many of the choices he and the rest of Neverdie Studios make will impact the value and profitability of their privately owned land area within the world. No employee of a planet partner should have the value of their personal assets being affected by the choices they make developing the game.
Allowing employees to have ownership of any asset in game is obviously a liability. And allowing payment to employees in the form of in world assets is just outrageous. Regardless if it's shared between a team of employees or a single person.
It's scary to me that there is no policy in place to prevent this. It's only a matter of time before someone exploits this to the fullest, and that could have devastating effects on the game economy.

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I couldnt agree more with this. A massive conflict of interest, No employee or family member of employee etc etc should own any asset in game on their own planet. I agree mjukis this part is so obvious i cannot believe people do not get it.

The important part, is their own planet, if ND wanted to buy the asteroid back, i say good luck to him, it is FPC owned and he cannot influence. But to own taxable, LA on his own planet, is such an obvious conflict of interest.

This kind of issue would actually induce me to lose faith in the company (MA), these kind of obvious restrictions any legal team would have in place. Which brings me to the question do MA even have a legal team? Doesnt seem so, maybe thats why the rl bank never took off!!! And those banned players and LA's is still not resolved

MA get a damn legal team together, and with your past history i suggest you pay top dollar!!

Stave & Menace i think you are confused by what he said

Rgds

Ace

It's a sad underhand move by NEVERDIE to use his developer powers to give him another CND immediately after selling the other one.

i voted yes
nothing against neverdie
its great to see one of us, a player, create this greatness..
however the name fits nowhere in next island. rocktropia was a stretch....but we all know and accpet it

i think next island was a shock to us all...

please let it be non branded

but anywho...doenst matter...im back down on calypso and will not visit again probably.

AH! The conflicts of interest !

Detach CND MK.II and add it to rocktopia where it belongs.

Stop the destruction of David Post's Next Island dream.

Also great points mjukis Though I feel it is landing on ears that don't hear or understand.

It just dawned on me, that individuals other than development staff are casually roaming around at ND Studios, which is evident in the docudrama that ND created. He even said that Force (Joe) brings in girls he meets who hang out in the office (who set the tone?), and in one scene in the video, Michael is showing one of those girls something on the computer, who also happens to be a Rock Star member.

Force himself has posted many pictures in the Rock Stars recruiting thread at PCF of these girls at ND Studios with confirmation that they are EU players - check this out - and this - and this - and this (which is an interesting one - not a girl, but plays a female avatar - and not on staff at ND Studios, that I know of - just a bonus pic) - and one more ... which shows another girl in the ND Studios with ND's son Taliesin (Robot Boy) who hang out there as well, and both are Rock Stars.

I don't know about anyone else, but this casual environment where family and friends hang out who are not developers, where people seem to be able to roam freely is rather concerning. Is there not any kind of security in place? And ... people on staff play EU avatars ... Tenacity (does the DJ'ing - could be Michael), Todd (works with graphics/models), Marius (EnzoMarius - community manager/forums), Force (office manager) ... EZ used to be on staff but isn't any more, seems he was let go. In ND's interview being published in the EntropiaTimes on Sunday, he says there are 10 developers on staff that divide their time between RT and NI - who are they, and do they also play regular EU avatars?

Whether these people take advantage of inside information or not, the "appearance of 'potential' impropriety" is present. I would absolutely love to hear from MindArk as to what the policies are ... if any. It just seems incredibly wrong that people on staff in a planet developer's office who are privileged to know inside information are allowed to play regular EU avatars.

Though it is not explicitly stated, it is obvious ND has investment interest in NI. Otherwise the planet partner will never allow ND to do his branding in NI without collecting some form of royalty from him.

Why players should be upset by the ND name, I dont understand. Ya, NI has been portrayed as something else but ended up with ND footprint all over it.

Does it matter?

What matters is the Loots return, at least to me

MindStar9 said:

......
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Whether these people take advantage of inside information or not, the "appearance of 'potential' impropriety" is present. I would absolutely love to hear from MindArk as to what the policies are ... if any. It just seems incredibly wrong that people on staff in a planet developer's office who are privileged to know inside information are allowed to play regular EU avatars.

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Right, but:

Problem is, we will never know if this stops when MA would say STOP. It is no problem for them to create other avatars and continue. That *could* not be proofed. You need a valid email and a person you know well to do so. (Thats similiar to all ppl).

So if one person *wants* to create one, two or ten Avatars, he/she could do so. And nobody knows *who* is playing this avatar for real. No problem if it is a *real* player only, it will cost him/her more to keep them alive.

In combination with developers/planet partners, it has a "smell".....

milduser said:

Why players should be upset by the ND name, I dont understand.

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Conflict of interest.

Because if every ND developed planet had an ND island he could create that island to be more lucrative than the rest of the whole planet. that island could be(as the NI rep said) be a 'HUGE Theme park', totally outside the theme of the planet, like lets say, a storage terminal on cp would have been back when there wasnt one, and thus be a conflict of interest to the planet partner himself. It could be a tiny little gold mine with unlimited options.

Also..

I expect there are a number of 'checkboxes' next to resources in the map editor, which allows the planet partner to decide what basic items drop from mobs, or are available to mine and where. The checkboxes however would given to the planet partner by ma - in short, if sweat didnt have a checkbox, it couldnt be ticked, but it has hence me thinks its no mistake. Has ND shown us a hint of the future?

OK guys, I think ND & Co. are quite aware of your feelings about the situation by now.

The mods have left this and similar threads alone because they were discussing an issue, not a person. Meaning the perceived design flaw of NI and the "pre-opening" surprise. The fact that issue was person-related does make it a murky issue, yes. However, we left it alone.

We had hoped these threads would relax a bit once the rest of NI opened up, however, it seems we can't wait for that. It's simply turning into too many personal jokes/insults, even from folks who have already voice their opinions about the main issue for us to overlook.

In short, you've been heard. I suggest finding another subject matter to focus your energies on.

JohnCapital said:

In short, you've been heard. I suggest finding another subject matter to focus your energies on.

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I am waiting for Club Marco B (CMB) to appear on a massive island on Rocktopia;
And Club David P (CDP) to appear on a new island on Calypso.

Then it will be business as usual lol.

Oh and don't forget Club Ozi and Club SEE, they need to be on other planet partners islands too and all need to have participant avatars so there is no conflict of interest looming.

Lavawalker said:

I am waiting for Club Marco B (CMB) to appear on a massive island on Rocktopia;
And Club David P (CDP) to appear on a new island on Calypso.

Then it will be business as usual lol.

Oh and don't forget Club Ozi and Club SEE, they need to be on other planet partners islands too and all need to have participant avatars so there is no conflict of interest looming.

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Oh, that's just not right ... I guess we'll just see what happens as time goes by, but I hope that there will be some sort of official communication from Next Island soon as to what the deal was with this launch we were given.

Stave said:

95% of comments on this forum are negative too, just like this thread. You all need to look at yourselfs in the mirror before pointing the finger at others. With this kind of attitide on pcf im pretty much done with reading it.

I came to eu to have fun. Not to read a thousand negative/drama threads.


Dont like something? Dont use it.



Simple

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I totaly agree...If you don't like it, there are many areas to explore that don't have ND name on them...play there

xillonz said:

It's a sad underhand move by NEVERDIE to use his developer powers to give him another CND immediately after selling the other one.

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On the stock market i think this situation would be considered insider trade information. Which is illegal to use. At least as long as you get caught on it.

NEVERDIE knew of the new CND coming on Next Island. Fully knowing this he sold his FPC CND for top dollar to other unknowing people. Or were any of the buyers told/aware of this?

I would say the value of the old CND has suddenly taken a dive. As a buyer i definitely would not have been happy about this.

Cheers
Siam

He´ll never change it, it´s ND, what do you expect:


Seriously, it´s his trademark and John paid enough money, live with it

/sarcasim on

This is more like it:


Neverdie brings lego to life !

Here is Neverdie Studios in action:


/sarcasim off

MindStar9 said:

Oh, that's just not right ... I guess we'll just see what happens as time goes by, but I hope that there will be some sort of official communication from Next Island soon as to what the deal was with this launch we were given.

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Check the NI forum, where the developer has posted comments on both the CND land area on NI and the soft launch of the planet as a whole.

rhogenbe said:

On the stock market i think this situation would be considered insider trade information. Which is illegal to use. At least as long as you get caught on it.

NEVERDIE knew of the new CND coming on Next Island. Fully knowing this he sold his FPC CND for top dollar to other unknowing people. Or were any of the buyers told/aware of this?

I would say the value of the old CND has suddenly taken a dive. As a buyer i definitely would not have been happy about this.

Cheers
Siam

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Really confused. One avatar sold a land area, an asteriod, to another avatar. Specified in that sale was that the name and 'branding' was not part of the sale, so CND ceased to exist on Calypso when the deeds changed hands (even though a new name has not yet been chosen nor implemented by the platform provider). So if the buyer thought that is some way they should be able to bank on the previous owners name and branding of the pixels I would be very surprized, and I don't get the impression at all that the new owner thinks that way, instead planning to create his own land area identity there. The first avatar was aware that he planned to transfer his name and branding to one or more of his own land areas in other locations, but how has that got anything to do with the old asteroid or what it's new owner does with it?

Lavawalker said:

/sarcasim on

This is more like it:

Neverdie brings lego to life !

Here is Neverdie Studios in action:

/sarcasim off

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Awesome!

Some will be happy about this ... I'm going to stop responding to these threads and wait to see if we get an official statement from David Post about what's going on with Next Island. It just seems strange to me that this is his planet, and as a CEO, he has yet to make an official statement, or interact with the community in any way whatsoever. I just find this as odd. Anyway, it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Lee said:

Really confused. One avatar sold a land area, an asteriod, to another avatar. Specified in that sale was that the name and 'branding' was not part of the sale, so CND ceased to exist on Calypso when the deeds changed hands (even though a new name has not yet been chosen nor implemented by the platform provider). So if the buyer thought that is some way they should be able to bank on the previous owners name and branding of the pixels I would be very surprized, and I don't get the impression at all that the new owner thinks that way, instead planning to create his own land area identity there. The first avatar was aware that he planned to transfer his name and branding to one or more of his own land areas in other locations, but how has that got anything to do with the old asteroid or what it's new owner does with it?

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It is not about the naming part.
It is about the fact that NEVERDIE knew a better designed with nicer mobs new group of LA's would be his and in order to make maximum money from the old CND he sold it of before this was public knowledge.

It is comparable to knowing up front that a public company that will loose a major customer and you decide to sell your stocks in that company before it is public knowledge. This because you know the value of the shares will drop significantly.

Yes it is a risk you take as a LA buyer. But still it feels fishy.

Cheers
Siam